See? There you go. You didn't actually answer the question. Do you actually know what you're talking about? Or are you just making long posts for the sake of looking intellectual?
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The Average Joe Magician - A case study in banality...
- Thread starter Steerpike
- Start date
See? There you go. You didn't actually answer the question. Do you actually know what you're talking about? Or are you just making long posts for the sake of looking intellectual?
I was saying that not to be confrontational but out of exasperation because I'm beginning to think you would rather I say yes to the latter question.
Well too bad because I do know what I'm talking about. I have been more on the nose about this than anything else I've posted since I rejoined these forums, so I don't understand what you want me to explain.
I would like you to explain, very plainly, what point you are trying to make in your original post. Because I had trouble finding one. I'm not trying to be an dick, I'm just honestly lost when it comes to what you're trying to get across.
I thought I had a good idea, but obviously I was wrong.
I dont understand why you are confused about the subject matter.
Is there something in particular you dont understand or are you saying you disagree?
EDIT: We posted at same time Ben.
hmm very interesting got me to think about my future in magic alot and how to make myself stand out plus i might get that book you mentioned about.
Then you're probably reading too much into the tangents I went off on.
This is the point in a nutshell:
, So it now started as a nice debate between ben and steer, Im going to learn from this thread
Ill just express my opinion here...
We just have to realise what are we doing with our magic, for example, do you guys remember steerpike thread about "You are not artists!"?
I like magic. I enjoy practicing it. I enjoy performing. I like making people happy with it,but I have realised that I am not going to make a living out of it, maybe I can make a couple of bucks here and there, but I already know that im not going to live out of it. Magic is an art But is also a hobby, a hobby that I try to perform and perfect everytime that I can...
Steerpike has a valid point, but just for the guys that want to live out of magic and that want to outstand from the pack and the bunch of the average magicians out there, the guys trying to not be another fish in the pond.
I love how people react to these kind of threads, some guys post comments trying to win the appraisal of some guys while others get so offended realising the truth that they neglect to believe it...so far I have enjoyed this thread, a lot of intelligent posts with valid arguments have been made aand this is turning into a nice going debate.
Of course there is a third type of person, wich has his own ideals and tries to defend them in any way possible.
The thread is looking good, cheers mates.
Ill just express my opinion here...
We just have to realise what are we doing with our magic, for example, do you guys remember steerpike thread about "You are not artists!"?
I like magic. I enjoy practicing it. I enjoy performing. I like making people happy with it,but I have realised that I am not going to make a living out of it, maybe I can make a couple of bucks here and there, but I already know that im not going to live out of it. Magic is an art But is also a hobby, a hobby that I try to perform and perfect everytime that I can...
Steerpike has a valid point, but just for the guys that want to live out of magic and that want to outstand from the pack and the bunch of the average magicians out there, the guys trying to not be another fish in the pond
.I love how people react to these kind of threads, some guys post comments trying to win the appraisal of some guys while others get so offended realising the truth that they neglect to believe it...so far I have enjoyed this thread, a lot of intelligent posts with valid arguments have been made aand this is turning into a nice going debate.
Of course there is a third type of person, wich has his own ideals and tries to defend them in any way possible.
The thread is looking good, cheers mates.
Last edited by a moderator:
See,only the people who are naturally inclined to these thoughts are the ones who resurface them. No matter how much you and i disagree,your a smart kid.
Its a train of thought that is so obvious. That should be a "no brainer" yet people do not see(or do not wish to see) it.
To sum up the post its basically a message to those that say they want to be professionals. But think that they can achieve said goal with "being themselves". Usually that means they cant say anything interesting without a deck of cards in their hands.
I dont see why ben didnt understand it.
Wow!!!!
I'm almost speechless, I in a way, agree with a lot of arguments that you have made, from steer, to ben, to all of you to a point. But to stay neutral. We all must remember, being a magician is a lot like being a pro athelete. We are all atheletes, thats something that can't be taken away. However, some will make it to the NFL (the working magician),some will be hall of famers(synonymous with the art of magic; famous) some will be in the semi-pro(need i say more?) and some will be forever true to their passion.
I do think that the ones that say that money isn't their goal, in some form, sell themselves short. If you have the passion and the drive, why not get paid for doing a job you love. I am not sayign that money is the most important thing, i just think it shouldn't be undersold. But guys you all have great arguments, like i previously stated.
As for steer's point about the magicians who tend to be themselves. I figure thats just them and they are not trying to hard to be fake. Thats all. I don't think its a lack of charisma, honestly David Blaine has an annoying voice. seriously. I think to hold a convo with that voice would be murder to the ears. But the guy has charisma, he can portray the mood of the effect like Oscar winning actor. You don't have to be loud, or fake, or this so called, "ideal character" to show your drive, motivation, and whatever you wanna call it. There are certain phrases as "laying it on too thick", i some magicians do just that. However a clown, juggler or whatever doesn't measure up to a magician. A magician can be intimate with one's personality, character, mood, or frame of mind. Clowns are a just what as labeled. An Act.
Seriously, Dan Spery is a character based magician. But its him. It suits him. He has something called value and a market for his brand. Then you have Wayne Houchin, who can be labled as "vanilla" to a point. But its him. He once stated in the "Art of Magic", that his character is the normal guy that can do extraordinary things.
I don't think that magicians are undervalued my friend. Its all about your ambition.....Its all about the work you put into what you do. To use the football analogy once more, all football players don't pan out. Only the ones who work hard, practice, and push themselves to the limit become household names. I hope what i said has put things into greater perspective.
I'm almost speechless, I in a way, agree with a lot of arguments that you have made, from steer, to ben, to all of you to a point. But to stay neutral. We all must remember, being a magician is a lot like being a pro athelete. We are all atheletes, thats something that can't be taken away. However, some will make it to the NFL (the working magician),some will be hall of famers(synonymous with the art of magic; famous) some will be in the semi-pro(need i say more?) and some will be forever true to their passion.
I do think that the ones that say that money isn't their goal, in some form, sell themselves short. If you have the passion and the drive, why not get paid for doing a job you love. I am not sayign that money is the most important thing, i just think it shouldn't be undersold. But guys you all have great arguments, like i previously stated.
As for steer's point about the magicians who tend to be themselves. I figure thats just them and they are not trying to hard to be fake. Thats all. I don't think its a lack of charisma, honestly David Blaine has an annoying voice. seriously. I think to hold a convo with that voice would be murder to the ears. But the guy has charisma, he can portray the mood of the effect like Oscar winning actor. You don't have to be loud, or fake, or this so called, "ideal character" to show your drive, motivation, and whatever you wanna call it. There are certain phrases as "laying it on too thick", i some magicians do just that. However a clown, juggler or whatever doesn't measure up to a magician. A magician can be intimate with one's personality, character, mood, or frame of mind. Clowns are a just what as labeled. An Act.
Seriously, Dan Spery is a character based magician. But its him. It suits him. He has something called value and a market for his brand. Then you have Wayne Houchin, who can be labled as "vanilla" to a point. But its him. He once stated in the "Art of Magic", that his character is the normal guy that can do extraordinary things.
I don't think that magicians are undervalued my friend. Its all about your ambition.....Its all about the work you put into what you do. To use the football analogy once more, all football players don't pan out. Only the ones who work hard, practice, and push themselves to the limit become household names. I hope what i said has put things into greater perspective.
Your conclusions do not follow neccessarily from your anecdote.
Yes, there are people who do not value talent and are always looking for a bargain, however this is not true of the entire entertainment industry, nor all buyers.
As to the Joe Average notion, perhaps the most commercially successful corporate magician in the world would suggest a good measure of his success came from the fact he is very "average" and "non-threatening" to the client. Clients pay a premium for him - because he knows how to deliver.
Finally, I am always amazed with the misperception people have about who is making money performing for real people.
Yes, there are people who do not value talent and are always looking for a bargain, however this is not true of the entire entertainment industry, nor all buyers.
As to the Joe Average notion, perhaps the most commercially successful corporate magician in the world would suggest a good measure of his success came from the fact he is very "average" and "non-threatening" to the client. Clients pay a premium for him - because he knows how to deliver.
Finally, I am always amazed with the misperception people have about who is making money performing for real people.