YouTube Magic

Sep 1, 2007
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Then I will assume everyone will ignore your arrogantly worded and ill suited post above, and not waste my time responding in length to someone that continually chastises for the same virtues he displays in his last two posts. Funny how you are mad at me for EXACTLY how your posts come across - we often hate in others what we see/hate in ourselves.

Everything I say and the way I say it is deliberate. I was trying to make a point, and you have just perfectly illustrated it. Now you understand what it's like to talk to someone who comes across as condescending and haughty.

However, I don't know you. I'm just calling things as I see them, as are you.

continual attacks of how I am saying something, rather than the message – my points still remain valid –

You still aren't listening. It's not about how valid your points are. You have given a lot of people here a reason to not like you, so they won't listen to you.

I'm trying to help by pointing this out, but you have thus far refused to listen. Why?

As for the book, you're going to have to wait on that. I simply don't have the money right now. It's not in the budget.
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
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For the same reason you say nobody listens to me - but the difference? All my posts have been responses to attacks and condsending remarks - look at how you instigated this? I didn't even address you. SO really....

Thanks for acting as the Mod and moral check - and showing me "how it is". IF you really felt this way - and "a lot of people" are concerned with how I write - How about PM'ing me to voice your concern - rather than "fighting fire with fire".

The funny thing is - a lot of people have written me to thank me for my direct posts. Also, the people I debate with have become my friends as we work towards a mutual respect 99% of the time.

You come across talking like you think you are YODA - the things you say are deliberate - me too Alex. I deliberately try to discuss magic - if people don't like the way I write...don't read.

But Swiss told me - don't bother to write anything that doesn't bother people, as they won't be bothered to read it. Check out the Coin magic post - most views and posts..even if you subtract mine. People will read what I write - they might not always agree - but I am no fool either pal.

Thanks for your advice - but if I really listen to what you say...then I wouldn't be listening to what you said at all, would I? Keep contradicting yourself – it is serving the purpose.

Just so you know I get it - good message comes across aggressive...I tired the nice guy route - and got stepped on by guys like you. However, I will try to soften my approach - as being angry when trying to share take the enjoyment out of it.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
The funny thing is - a lot of people have written me to thank me for my direct posts. Also, the people I debate with have become my friends as we work towards a mutual respect 99% of the time.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention as I can only know what I see here.

But Swiss told me - don't bother to write anything that doesn't bother people, as they won't be bothered to read it.

And he's right. But it is still possible to go too far.

Just so you know I get it - good message comes across aggressive...I tired the nice guy route - and got stepped on by guys like you. However, I will try to soften my approach - as being angry when trying to share take the enjoyment out of it.

Then you should know exactly what I'm talking about. And why you should be above resorting to ignoring me and using my own argument as the rationale.

Just wanted to let you know - your last post was number 666 - there is some irony for you.

I was sincerely hoping we could avoid that joke. That phase of my life is over.
 
Sep 1, 2007
457
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San Diego
it seems to me, maybe if someone who is great at creating web-pages anda ll of that jazz, could possibly do this.

why not make a magician tube?

something that would not be on google or something that would take time to search for, thats youtube but for magician videos??

OH WAIT, dont we have that?
why not use that instead of youtube?
 
Mar 29, 2008
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That could be a good suggestion as another point in the advice column - sort of ties in with Alex's point on being more discreat in public forums.
 
May 10, 2008
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Yes but also we can't really control other "Magicians" to post here and then ban all magic tricks from youtube. If so than this problem would'nt really have started. Though I wish it could be as simple as that.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
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Back in Time
youtube magic isn't entertaining and Jami Ian Swiss did talk about how Magic was meant to turn a shy kid into somebody with confidence. How is one going to have confidence if they just sit or stand there in front of a webcam? The other thing is that a camera isn't going to react or tell you if you flashed. Sure you can SEE if you flashed, but why should you care? If you perform on youtube, you're not really entertaining anybody. They just end up watching 90x and then figuring it out.


Also... Crotch shots...
 
Dec 4, 2007
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www.thrallmind.com
Harry Anderson once said (my paraphrase) that it's of no use to try and protect magic from things that might hurt it. There is only one thing that is good for magic: perform it well for an audience. No matter who or where that audience is.
Ignore everything else.

Keyword there is audience.

-ThrallMind
 
Sep 20, 2008
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Just to point out, 2 out of the three videos have been removed/violated youtube copyrights.

However the 'Repeatable' trick was very impressive though.

Carry on.

-Sin

Also, Just to be a bit of an ass- the last few pages sounded more like a personal argument. kindly settle disputes over PM, Hurts the eyes of Lazy Teenage 'magicians' like me to read essays full of Attacks and Rebuttals.
 
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Mar 29, 2008
882
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Why did I abandon this? Well - I can't stop magicians from posting on Youtube - those that do it - will still do it - those that don't, they know why it is a bad idea already. It is like telling an adult to not smoke - they know it is bad, but will do it anyways, or make choices not to....no inbetween.

However, I will say this - Close up magic. CLOSE up magic CLOSE UP MAGIC. Our magic is meant to be done CLOSE UP! Having magic on a rewatchable media is STUPID - it is bad for your magic, bad for magic itself, it is just a bad idea.

I left this thread because those that post, know it is bad - those that don't are too busy posting videos on magic.

I guess it is nice to see Youtube is "cracking down" on exposure - however, it should be up to us. Nice to see this thread made a come back - but really - the solution is creating a standard of deceptions for the camera....or at least using your advantages of NOT being live.

The big names do it - why not you?

So read this - Card under glass may not play well on camera - where an ACR might - the best way to make good Youtube....well, read my first post.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
Actually they are cracking down on a lot of other things as well. As long as the video has copy righted music on it. They'll pretty much either mute it or take it down completely.
 
Jul 2, 2008
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This post is to address the RIDICULOUS number of Youtube magic posts. In this post, I want to first, point out the problems with Youtube magic posts, second, make you change the way and reason you post and lastly, give you some solid advice if you don’t want to stop posting Youtube magic.

The majority of close up magic is not meant to be held under the scrutiny of what has been called “the unblinking eye” of the camera. Allowing Youtube viewers to watch a trick, often done at bad angles, over and over again – breaks the cardinal rule of magic. Never repeat an effect – the first time is a good trick – the second time – a good lesson.

The majority of Youtube posts are done to ask for “advice” or the “how does this look” post. The problem with this is that the shot is at one angle and natural misdirection doesn’t occur in the same fashion when the frame is a computer screen – to really test your material, you must do it for a LIVE audience, not through the one way medium of video. This means that even if you post something PERFECT on your video, that it may not play the same in real world performance, because of different problems like, angles or timing wise, for example. Moreover, this kind of magic exposure is the start of what we are seeing in music – I won’t buy a CD because I can get the music for free – attitude. Imagine nobody hiring magicians, because they can download magic for free off Youtube. Furthermore, a significant problem with Youtube magic is that it makes magic less impressive – look up Jumping Gemini – not only will someone other that Darwin Ortiz get credited – changing history with inaccuracies – but you will see approximately 500 posts of the same effect, tutorials and the majority have flashes and poor handling.

Which brings me to my next point – tutorials? Many of the tutorial teachers, can’t even do the effect well?! They teach it with poor crediting and poor technique – but what even gives them the right to teach an effect? Did they improve on it? Did they change the handling? No – they have just exposed magic – and as a group we should educate and hold each other accountable for preventing exposure. This is another topic all together, and I know this simple post won’t prevent magicians from posting horrible magic on Youtube – so here are some tips to at least make sure you aren’t one of the magicians that is posting poor quality magic on Youtube.

RULES...X that - A FEW SUGGESTED GUIDELINES FOR YOUTUBE POSTING:

1) ONLY do effects that can be REPEATED WITHOUT EXPLANATION – this is where the method is solid enough to withstand being watch again and again by the viewer.

2) Don’t flash – let me repeat that DON’T FLASH – seems obvious? Well, it must not be – because I have seen very few videos that don’t flash something. The unblinking eye picks up everything, so watch your video with a critical eye – film and re-film until it looks FLAWLESS to the most critical observer.

3) Better than not flashing sleights – do effects that have NO MOVES – use self working effects or do the dirty work off camera

4) USE YOUR ADVANTAGES - you are on camera, so use everything to your advantage – edit, angles, gimmicks…whatever, just make sure the magic you do doesn’t reflect the method.

Here is an example of where the switches are done on camera – leading to the method – this guy has posted in this group, so it’s not a personal attack – but remember, you put yourself out there.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=yGS1I_VssqY

Here is another example of something you watch once and then again to catch the moves – great magic, ruined by Youtube.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=-ohfo7MVh_M&feature=related

Lastly, an example of something you can watch again and again and not know the method if you are a lay audience.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=0JRbhFdMhWQ

Sorry I couldn’t’ find it in English.

In conclusion – please, stop posting videos of close up magic on Youtube – keep the Magicians Oath and if you feel you must post – do it with care and credit properly.

As a reminder:

Magicians Oath

"As a magician I promise never to reveal the secret of any illusion to a non-magician, unless that one swears to uphold the Magician's Oath in turn. I promise never to perform any illusion for any non-magician without first practicing the effect until I can perform it well enough to maintain the illusion of magic."

" I promise I will always guard against exposing the secrets of magic, whether through lack of practice before performing, or through explanation to any person not entitled to know the secrets. I make this promise seriously, realizing that in violating it, I am not only violating my word of honor, but I am violating the trust and rights of all other magicians who, by the very nature of their form of entertainment, are entitled to the preservation of the secrets of magic."

Thanks.


All I can say, is WOW.

WOW.

You've gotta be freakin' kidding me.

I bet you every piece of magic I own, that if somebody posted a Youtube magic video, and EDITED IT like you said, you would complain that there's too much editing and not enough real magic.

You know what really puts my back out of alignment, when people come onto this forum, and try and establish rules like they're Dai Vernon or something. They think that anything that works for them, must work for somebody else, and that they can, in ONE sentence, sum up what people can and can't do with their magic.

And THAT'S what really grinds my gears.
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
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You will bet me every piece of magic you own? I will PM you my mailing address - I expect the stuff here within the week.

Here is the Reuben - if you think this post was about establishing rules that people MUST follow - it is not - actually, people can do whatever they want in my country.

The point of this post was to set out some helpful guidelines that allow Youtube posters to have stronger hits, and better magic - THE PROS USE THE SAME IDEAS - so really Rueben, if you are against this post, you are against good magic.
 
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Mar 29, 2008
882
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Like I said - this post was about a year ago - so perhaps I will look for new examples - but honestly, the thread served the purpose at the time.
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
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Here is one by a pro - but it proves the camera is bad for these kind of effects:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwMqELYTROA

Even this effect...which should seem MOVELESS, is ruined by the injog:

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLwCnHBp3k


This is moveless magic - it plays well on camera. The magic we do in real life, has to be different than what we do on camera - because of the fact that real life can't be watched over and over...like a YOUTUBE VIDEO!! AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS!! HOW IS THIS AN ISSUE???? STILL!! A YEAR LATAR!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHq5z3ZkTyU
 
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Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
I was a bit surprised to see Jami Ian Swiss put that on youtube, tho I don't think he recorded that for anything other than a Discovery Channel thing.. So it can be forgiven.

It's not ruined by the injog, it's ruined by the camera. But it wasn't meant for lay people to see online. It was meant for other magicians to see the effect and then get a good idea of what it does.
 
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