I don't completely understand it...

[cm763]

If a layman is really willing to fork over $30 for a single trick DVD...let them. It's their loss. What are the chances of that actually happening? Probably pretty slim. I mean, from all the whining on this and other forums, most magicians have a hard enough time handing over $30 for single trick DVDs.

As well, if a layman learns the secret to an effect...so what? It's not the end of the world. Although it may come as a surprise rolleyes, laymen aren't there to be fooled--they're there to be entertained. It's the same reason I can go to a David Copperfield show and still be impressed with what he does--he's not fooling me with every effect (some, but not all--maybe even most, but still not all, heh), but he's definitely entertaining me. And because I've been entertained, I really don't care how he did it (*shocked and surprised*). What? If we do our job a little better, we'll have less to worry about?

Like has been said already, E is a business, just like T11, Penguin, and a sea of other magic companies/retailers/producers/whatever. If you don't like their services, there are plenty of other places you can purchase your effects from. They won't be all that different, just how they sell themselves, but I suppose different fronts appeal to different people. Either way, it's a big world out there, so if you're not happy with E I'm sure you can find another place you'll be happy with (at least, happier with).

 

[James Smith]

Wow. Yes it does, since you said magic dvd's are like popsicles.
Use your brain.

You can't get sick of a magic website because they sell a lot of DVDs. You can get sick of popsicles by eating too many, but not magic DVDs. You're metaphor just makes no sense to me.

If a layman is really willing to fork over $30 for a single trick DVD...let them. It's their loss. What are the chances of that actually happening? Probably pretty slim. I mean, from all the whining on this and other forums, most magicians have a hard enough time handing over $30 for single trick DVDs.

As well, if a layman learns the secret to an effect...so what? It's not the end of the world. Although it may come as a surprise rolleyes, laymen aren't there to be fooled--they're there to be entertained. It's the same reason I can go to a David Copperfield show and still be impressed with what he does--he's not fooling me with every effect (some, but not all--maybe even most, but still not all, heh), but he's definitely entertaining me. And because I've been entertained, I really don't care how he did it (*shocked and surprised*). What? If we do our job a little better, we'll have less to worry about?

Like has been said already, E is a business, just like T11, Penguin, and a sea of other magic companies/retailers/producers/whatever. If you don't like their services, there are plenty of other places you can purchase your effects from. They won't be all that different, just how they sell themselves, but I suppose different fronts appeal to different people. Either way, it's a big world out there, so if you're not happy with E I'm sure you can find another place you'll be happy with (at least, happier with).

I agree with that.

 

[MagicLemonBird]

Do you honestly think non-magicians will go out of their way and spend 30 or more dollars to find out how a single trick works?
They dont want to know,not really.
The only people here who throw these doomsday prophecies about magic exposure are teenage hobbyists who perform magic for their friends at school.
Step out into the real world and no one honestly cares if there is a magic website or DVD.

Yeah true, but the thing is that the laymen who look on the site don't have to purschase it, all they do is have to look at the site and then they know magic. That's one more person that knows that magic exists, one more person that knows that we are essentialy liars. You'd be suprised by how this happens.

 

[MagicLemonBird]

You can't get sick of a magic website because they sell a lot of DVDs. You can get sick of popsicles by eating too many, but not magic DVDs. You're metaphor just makes no sense to me.



I agree with that.

You can't get sick alright, but what I am trying to portray is that magic is like popsicles (to laymen). If they get to much exposure to Ellusionist, then magic reveals itself to them like how magic is done to the bad taste of popsicles.

 

[James Smith]

Yeah true, but the thing is that the laymen who look on the site don't have to purschase it, all they do is have to look at the site and then they know magic. That's one more person that knows that magic exists, one more person that knows that we are essentialy liars. You'd be suprised by how this happens.

Laymen already know that magic doesn't exist. They know that it's all sleight of hand. Why would you want to screw with someone so they think you have magical powers. Don't fool your audience, entertain them.

You can't get sick alright, but what I am trying to portray is that magic is like popsicles (to laymen). If they get to much exposure to Ellusionist, then magic reveals itself to them like how magic is done to the bad taste of popsicles.

You've destroyed a good metaphor.

 

[MagicLemonBird]

If a layman is really willing to fork over $30 for a single trick DVD...let them. It's their loss. What are the chances of that actually happening? Probably pretty slim. I mean, from all the whining on this and other forums, most magicians have a hard enough time handing over $30 for single trick DVDs.

As well, if a layman learns the secret to an effect...so what? It's not the end of the world. Although it may come as a surprise rolleyes, laymen aren't there to be fooled--they're there to be entertained. It's the same reason I can go to a David Copperfield show and still be impressed with what he does--he's not fooling me with every effect (some, but not all--maybe even most, but still not all, heh), but he's definitely entertaining me. And because I've been entertained, I really don't care how he did it (*shocked and surprised*). What? If we do our job a little better, we'll have less to worry about?

Like has been said already, E is a business, just like T11, Penguin, and a sea of other magic companies/retailers/producers/whatever. If you don't like their services, there are plenty of other places you can purchase your effects from. They won't be all that different, just how they sell themselves, but I suppose different fronts appeal to different people. Either way, it's a big world out there, so if you're not happy with E I'm sure you can find another place you'll be happy with (at least, happier with).

That's why I come on T11 instead of Ellusionist.

 

[MagicLemonBird]

Laymen already know that magic doesn't exist. They know that it's all sleight of hand. Why would you want to screw with someone so they think you have magical powers. Don't fool your audience, entertain them.

No, that is totally not true. Laymen WANT to be entertained, they want to believe that you have magic in your pocket. When I was in Las Vegas as a layman (that sounds weird ) I saw people who didn't come from England to see a liar but they thought that they came to Las Vegas to see one thing, magic. You'd be totally shocked if I took a poll on laymen and saw that majority believe in magic if they have experienced it.

 

[Valhalla76]

I'm very satisfied with my purchases from ellusionist. Plus isn't Wayne Houchin the founder of theory11? Ellusionist puts out a lot of his DVDs

A lot of people on this forum boast that they don't like Criss Angel. I guess it is just because he is popular and makes a handsome living. It's fun to beat up on the successful people. Some have made fun of Criss Angel on here for not doing enough card magic. Well Criss Angel says he doesn't even like to do card magic. Most of the card magic on his show is all forced card with a surprise ending. Like shooting the card, ect. Criss Angel is not famous for card magic, he became famous for his escapes and grandiose stage illusions like Tronik and Houdini's Metamorphosis with no cover. I'm pretty sure Houdini never did much card magic either.

I have the How to do Street Magic and the sequel Inside Magic. These are basically ellusionists' starter DVDs. Between the two videos you learn a lot of fundamentals to build on and make your own routines. The only complaint I would say is that they have added more bonus features to How To over the years including some card sleights. They are not explained very well at all. In fact it made me not want to order Crash Course, because I was afraid the stuff wouldn't be explained well.

Right now I'm thinking of getting either the loops DVDs or the Daniel Garcia project DVDs.

 

[MagicLemonBird]

Laymen already know that magic doesn't exist. They know that it's all sleight of hand. Why would you want to screw with someone so they think you have magical powers. Don't fool your audience, entertain them.



You've destroyed a good metaphor.

I have not destroyed the metaphor, I have explained it so that you can understand it as how I do.

 

[James Smith]

No, that is totally not true. Laymen WANT to be entertained, they want to believe that you have magic in your pocket. When I was in Las Vegas as a layman (that sounds weird ) I saw people who didn't come from England to see a liar but they thought that they came to Las Vegas to see one thing, magic. You'd be totally shocked if I took a poll on laymen and saw that majority believe in magic if they have experienced it.

I'm saying this again, don't fool, entertain.

I've never met a laymen over the age of five that thinks magic exists. However they know that there are good and bad magicians.

 

[visualartist]

Yeah true, but the thing is that the laymen who look on the site don't have to purschase it, all they do is have to look at the site and then they know magic. That's one more person that knows that magic exists, one more person that knows that we are essentialy liars. You'd be suprised by how this happens.

They already know we are liars. You think they see your Dan and dave eye candy tricks as real magic or wizardry? Be real.
It doesnt matter what kind of magic you do,they know its illusion.

 

[James Smith]

They already know we are liars. You think they see your Dan and dave eye candy tricks as real magic or wizardry? Be real.
It doesnt matter what kind of magic you do,they know its illusion.

Well said VA.

 

[visualartist]

No, that is totally not true. Laymen WANT to be entertained, they want to believe that you have magic in your pocket. When I was in Las Vegas as a layman (that sounds weird ) I saw people who didn't come from England to see a liar but they thought that they came to Las Vegas to see one thing, magic. You'd be totally shocked if I took a poll on laymen and saw that majority believe in magic if they have experienced it.

Kid,your still green and have much to learn about performance and human nature in general. Dont think you know everything.

 

[MagicLemonBird]

I'm saying this again, don't fool, entertain.

I've never met a laymen over the age of five that thinks magic exists. However they know that there are good and bad magicians.

If everybody knew we were lying, then they wouldn't believe in magic. Maybe you've talked to the wrong people the 10 percent who don't believe in magic.

 

[MagicLemonBird]

Kid,your still green and have much to learn about performance and human nature in general. Dont think you know everything.

Hey!, you used the word "green" again!
Yes, I am still green, and no I don't know everything, I am simply just stating my opinion.

 

[Steerpike]

Yeah, but if a laymen buys a dvd, just to know how it is done, that is one more laymen that knows that magic doesn't exist. I'm not talking about the buisness here (but I can talk in buisness), I'm talking about the importance of magic.

How often do you think that's actually going to happen?

Yeah true, but the thing is that the laymen who look on the site don't have to purschase it, all they do is have to look at the site and then they know magic.

How often do you think that's actually going to happen?

If everybody knew we were lying, then they wouldn't believe in magic. Maybe you've talked to the wrong people the 10 percent who don't believe in magic.

If you're actually trying to portray real magic, why are you doing card tricks?

None of the answers will change the fact that your doomsday prophecies are made of equal parts unfounded paranoia and bull****.

 

[James Smith]

If everybody knew we were lying, then they wouldn't believe in magic. Maybe you've talked to the wrong people the 10 percent who don't believe in magic.

Seriously, magic is not about making spectators believe in magic, it's about entertaining them! I've only been doing magic for about four years now (which isn't a short amount of time.) I went through a one month phase where I would try to make spectators think I could do real magic. Ever single one knew that I didn't do magic.

Also 90% of the population does NOT believe in magic! Are you serious? Spectators know magic doesn't exist! They know it's all smoke and mirrors.

 

[MagicLemonBird]

How often do you think that's actually going to happen?



How often do you think that's actually going to happen?



If you're actually trying to portray real magic, why are you doing card tricks?

None of the answers will change the fact that your doomsday prophecies are made of equal parts unfounded paranoia and bull****.

1) Not that much
2) Sligthly greater. Say, there are 100 people in the United States alright. Let's say that 30 percent of them know that magic doesn't exist. 30 people know magic is fake. They will call you as a liar, maybe not that extreme but this affects your performance.
3) Well, what is your definition of real magic?

 

[MagicLemonBird]

Seriously, magic is not about making spectators believe in magic, it's about entertaining them! I've only been doing magic for about four years now (which isn't a short amount of time.) I went through a one month phase where I would try to make spectators think I could do real magic. Ever single one knew that I didn't do magic.

Also 90% of the population does NOT believe in magic! Are you serious? Spectators know magic doesn't exist! They know it's all smoke and mirrors.

Maybe that's because they type magic for sell in google.

 

[James Smith]

2) Sligthly greater. Say, there are 100 people in the United States alright. Let's say that 30 percent of them know that magic doesn't exist. 30 people know magic is fake. They will call you as a liar, maybe not that extreme but this affects your performance.

Way more than 30% of Americans know that real magic doesn't exist.

Maybe that's because they type magic for sell in google.

No, it's because they have brains and paid attention in Science class. (I'm not saying you don't by the way)